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Thread: RANT -Cop VS Ak47 toting kid- RANT

  1. #1
    Member rescue39's Avatar
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    RANT -Cop VS Ak47 toting kid- RANT

    My father in law responded as back up to an armed robbery in progress. Their cruiser stopped, a 14 year old kid stepped out of the liquor store holding a Thompson with a drum clip and they went for the floorboards. Fortunately the little snarker knew zip about the Thompson in full auto mode and most of his shots went towards Mars but the two cruisers did catch 22 rounds. Once he appeared to have ran out of ammo all three cops put a couple of rounds in him. Enter the locals and the media and the excessive force witch hunt was on.

    What we need is an off switch on the media. A 'before you go cranking out your hype and tripe story Mr/Ms reporter, please answer the following'. Have you ever been present when a fully automatic rifle has been fired in your close proximity? Have you ever been shot at? Do you know personally of anyone in your line of business who has been shot and wounded or killed?

    I have no clue about the case. Far wiser minds than mine are examining the situation. But I am absolutely floored by the media witch hunts forming, literally, all over the world. I've read 3 articles about this incident in the local Thai newspapers. IT'S FARKING RIDICULOUS! Leave it to the experts, for craps sake!
    Last edited by rescue39; 11-01-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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    That is the business of news media. Regardless if we like it or not...we will never slow or stop them.

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    Verified LEO rangersgt's Avatar
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    So where does the AK-47 come in? ............. A Thompson ..... with a drum magazine? If that is what the kid was carrying, he didn't need to pull any robberies. The gun itself is worth thousands ....
    " If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #4
    Member rescue39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangersgt View Post
    So where does the AK-47 come in? ............. A Thompson ..... with a drum magazine? If that is what the kid was carrying, he didn't need to pull any robberies. The gun itself is worth thousands ....
    Korean war relic his father managed to get back to the states. But let's not credit these zots with a whole lot of brains. I did a report on a car burglary where they broke through the back window of a Jaguar, crawled into the front, failed to jimmy the stereo out of the dash and fled. They crawled over about $100,000 of video equipment covered with a blanket in the back seat. I'm sure many cops have had similar.

    But the point is this media bullfeathers being flung far and wide and sucked up armchair experts who get all their news from a single pseudo news source with ZERO actual expert input. Then they go load it up with innuendo and top it off with an assortment of vague inferences. They've turned reality into a drama-sports spectacular. Most know zip about internal affairs investigations and completely ignore the fact that the officers and agency they are reporting about doesn't have the authority or ability to divulge the info and would get dragged over hot coals if they jumped to the conclusions the media and public jump to.
    Last edited by rescue39; 11-01-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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    Senior Member sculptor's Avatar
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    The media is real happy to leap on any tidbit they can, using anonymous sources for information and statements so constantly it's annoying, if Joe "isn't authorized to speak to the media" then how freaking hard is it to FIND SOMEONE who IS authorized to speak to the media, put a name on the claims and statements and back it up?

    The case in the news of the kid with the toy AR15 rifle is now like the opening post's comments- the media frnzy working the people up into a lather about how the whole thing went down, no one stops to think of the fact the fake gun looked real and it was being moved in the officer's direction despite orders to drop it, whatever exactly happened there- the kid didn't hear the order, he turned his body towards the voice not thinking or seeing he had weapons drawn on him doesn't matter when there's that split second there multiple people have to decide to shoot or not shoot based on what they see.

    What DID they see?

    They saw someone who didn't look his age walking down the street carrying what looked like a loaded AR15 assault rifle, not slung over his shoulder or in a case but carried like someone would who has criminal intent, he did not drop the weapon and he turned towards the officers, they naturally took that as a direct threat and took him out, case closed justified 100%.

    So whose fault was this?

    My list:

    1)The companies who insist on continuing to manufacture toy and replica guns that are far too realistic to be out in the hands of kids waving them around in public and crowds who have NO idea if it's a toy or the real thing stolen from the kid's parents ALA another Columbine etc about to happen.

    2) The ones who purchased this replica gun to begin with knowing how things are today.
    3)The parents who allowed him to handle or borrow this gun

    The media is annoying with this rush to spurt out every possible detail and speculation, half of which later prove WRONG.
    rescue39 likes this.
    RIP: Officer Jamie Buenting, Rockwell City IA PD, FA & tactical trainer, EOW 9-13-2013

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    Verified LEO rangersgt's Avatar
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    Rescue39, where and when did this happen? I would like to read some of the news media accounts that you are referring to.
    " If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Verified LEO delzo70's Avatar
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    Deputy kills 13-year-old carrying fake rifle - CNN.com .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....The incident happened last week in Santa Rosa and is under close scrutiny, of course, by people who have never had a loaded weapon of any type aimed at them in an adrenaline charged situation.
    Last edited by delzo70; 11-03-2013 at 01:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by delzo70
    Deputy kills 13-year-old carrying fake rifle - CNN.com I could only get the Quick Reply feature to work so I could not add a live link.Anyway, the incident happened last week in Santa Rosa.
    That isn't the incident rescue39 is talking about with the cop cars being hit 22 times with a Thompson SMG .....
    " If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Verified LEO delzo70's Avatar
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    Yeah, I found the incident Sculptor mentioned instead of Rescue39....... sorry. I'm fairly good at Google-fu but nothing comes up about the other incident. Sounds like it would have been big news at the time though.
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    Senior Member sculptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delzo70
    Yeah, I found the incident Sculptor mentioned instead of Rescue39....... sorry.
    The incident I mentioned is similar and mentioned because of the references to the media frenzy.
    The Tommy case sounds like it's several years or more back which could be hard to find in Google without more details and key words.
    RIP: Officer Jamie Buenting, Rockwell City IA PD, FA & tactical trainer, EOW 9-13-2013

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    Member rescue39's Avatar
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    What Sculptor said seems to sum it up. Why in fark must toy guns try to replicate real ones in great detail and where does parental responsibility come in? Just what are people thinking when they put a replica of a deadly weapon in a child's hands? Are they so far removed from reality they don't think of a situation like what occurred, that just about any cop, and quite a few civilians, especially ones with military training, are going to do exactly what that cop did.

    Thompson incident: Culver City Ca., Around 1974.


    As a PS. When I was 8 I took the NRA firearm safety class, given by an enthusiastic LEO. The entire class was kids under 10. He zapped us with all sorts of questions that made us think like being on the 2nd story of a 3 story building with a loaded firearm, where do you point it? He also had us all play the amazing magical gun. He took his side arm, unloaded it, checked the action then handed it to the kid next to him in a circle. The second the kid had a grip on it the cop yelled, "IS THAT LOADED? DID YOU CHECK THE ACTION?" Then he had the gun handed on. After we each had taken the gun, opened the action and closed it again and handed it on he then explained, regardless, all guns are always loaded unless you have personally checked. The second it leaves your hand it has reloaded itself!
    He then took us into a garage and handed on kid his gun, one a knife and one a club. He then asked, "Are you three threatening me?" Then he shut the door. It was almost pitch black. He asked, "How do I know you aren't threatening me?" He then gave us a lecture on how to carry anything that resembled a weapon so a person would not think you are threatening them.

    I wish to h*** all parents would take their kids to similar classes.
    Last edited by rescue39; 11-07-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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  12. #12
    Verified LEO rangersgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue39
    Thompson incident: Culver City Ca., Around 1974.
    Thanks .... since you have already read the media accounts, perhaps you could provide a link. It is a little more difficult and time consuming to search for incidents that old.
    " If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

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    I have no idea if the Thompson incident made it in the newspapers. I heard it from my father in law and his partner, them being the backup responders.

    With the LEO vs dumb kid with AK replica, I read around 30 newspapers a day. I got the bit in my teeth when not only every American news I read barfed that story, the British news and local Thai papers were spewing it up as well.
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    Surgeon here. Can we agree that both cases, and anything remotely like them, are just utterly tragic? People died; that's cause enough for tears.

    I won't call those involved children, regardless of their ages. Chronological age really is just an arbitrary measure of maturity in any case, so it may well be they both knew just what they were doin' was stupid, and just... did it anyway. Hell's bells, when I was their age, I was applying to college. Doesn't mean I was wise, or in control of myself. I also did many stupid, stupid things just because I was convinced of True Love and my own immortality at the time. Only pure luck saved me from serious consequences.

    The reasons for this are well described by medical bench researchers. The human brain is like a fine cabernet sauvingon... smooths out and improves only with age. Full maturation of the gray/white matter connections and therefore the summation of a mostly rational/empathetic being is not achieved until about age 50-60, and then only in about 10-20% of the world's population.

    It's still horrible that they died. It's horrible anytime someone's life is snuffed out in such a senseless fashion. It breaks my goddamned heart.

    But then, reading the front page of P1 breaks my heart, every day. Senseless tragedy as far as the page can scroll. Officer Boyfriend has tried to ban me from doing it because he's tired of seeing me cry over his comrades, and some of their 'perps' as well. Joke's on him, I do it anyway.

    My heart breaks again when I go to Reddit and SomethingAwful, and read the same stories from far different viewpoints. A lot of people have died at ya'll's collective hands (to say nothing of those who've died under the care of surgeons like me; wanna take it up, go ahead. I'll tell you about my last 5 weeks of constant call).* Recently it was the 19-year-old in Ames, IA (just a short drive from me now) who was shot and killed by an officer after taking his dad's truck in an act of misguided, immature, but totally normal teenaged stupidity. While I feel the bite of his family's rage and grief, I know the officer involved has to be feeling it just as much.

    He's been named, and his photo shown in the local paper... good Lord, I know that horrible feeling of self-doubt, wondering over and over if you did the right thing... and it's such a small town besides. Right now, a lot of the folks on the Internet have seen his dashboard cam and they think Officer McPherson completely overreacted. If/when he goes online, that's what he's gonna see. Even though he's been cleared of wrongdoing from a legal standpoint--he's a pariah in a world where your online reputation frequently means more than your physical one.

    So what's my point? I dunno. I'm confused and angry and it leads me to use that 4-letter-word 'hate.' I hate seein' ya'll being criticized unfairly... as much as I hate seein' people in my ER and OR needin' my help for injuries inflicted by ya'll... as much as I hate fearin' my own lover and his intentions... as much as I hate the idea that ya'll call me a 'civilian' as if you're not, too...

    What's the answer, here? Chief Burbank out in Salt Lake seems to have a good head on his shoulders--least ways, of all the cities I've ever gone on a walkabout through (as a single, tiny, unarmed female), his was the least-threatening ever. Can ya'll be more like him? Or is he really the anomaly?

    *"Since 9/11, about 5,000 Americans have been killed by U.S. police officers, which is almost equivalent to the number of U.S. soldiers who have been killed in the line of duty in Iraq." Source: K Ruckie. "US Police Have Killed Over 5,000 Since 9/11." MintPress News. Nov 6, 2013. Mint Press News | Independent, non-partisan journalism.
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    Verified LEO rangersgt's Avatar
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    One comment, DoctorHere is the relevant paragraph from the article you cite and quote from:[quote]Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it
    " If you would know a man, observe how he treats a cat." - Robert A. Heinlein

 

 
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